In a message dated 11/20/2002 5:55:43 PM Central Standard Time, Lara writes:
<<Which of the following do you consider "more ASL"?
MY-FAMILY-HAVE-#-ANIMALS.
or
ANIMALS-#-MY-FAMILY-HAVE.
Thank you!
Fellow teacher,
Lara
Lara,
Which of the following do you consider more English?
Phrase 1. "I wouldn't dream of retiring!"
Phrase 2. "Retire? I wouldn't dream of it!"
See my point? They are both, equally English.
Phrase number 1 is more common though.
Someone who isn't familiar with the ins and outs of the English
language might think that phrase 1 is more English than phrase 2.
Someone
who is familiar with English might think that Phrase 2 is better because it
seems more complex. But we need to stop and realize that phrase 1 is
actually quite complex as well: noun-subject/auxiliary verb+adverb-
"contraction"/ verb/preposition/verb intransitive.
Here is
another example:
Phrase 3. "Last night my brother's friend came
to dinner."
Phrase 4. "A friend of my brother's came to dinner last
night."
The double genitive (two possessives: "of" and "brother's") construction in sentence #4 doesn't make it any more or
less English than the more common structure of sentence #3. Some
English teachers might not like phrase 4 very much and actually criticize a
person for using that sentence. Regardless of whether or not the
teacher "likes it" millions of English speakers use it.
That
is what I call the difference between a prescriptive approach to teaching
ASL and a descriptive approach. Some ASL teachers try to tell their
students that the sign WELCOME is not an ASL sign. Doing so is
"prescriptive." They are trying to prescribe ASL according to
their purist notions of how ASL should be as opposed to what ASL is.
I
remember a conversation in ASL with a Deaf ASL instructor named Clayton
(last name on file). Near the beginning of the conversation I had signed WELCOME in
response to him thanking me for something. He "corrected" me
and indicated that WELCOME wasn't an ASL sign (we are both interested in
what is and isn't ASL so it wasn't as rude as you might imagine). I
questioned him about it and apparently he had been to some seminar recently and someone with letters behind their name who lived more than 50
miles away had told everybody that the sign "WELCOME" isn't used in ASL.
I asked him what he suggested instead and he gave me the usual, "SURE,
THANK YOU, THUMBS-UP, FINE" replacements. I said
"OH-I-SEE" and we went on with our conversation.
Now here's the funny part, near the end of our half hour long conversation
on my doorstep, I thanked him for coming by and he signed
"you're-WELCOME!"
I pointed that his usage of the "forbidden sign" and he did a
major "gulp" and turned a pretty shade of red.
A descriptive
approach to ASL instruction simply tells the students what is currently out
there being used by the Deaf Community.
Thousands and thousands of Deaf
people do use the sign WELCOME. Plus, numerous recognized experts in
the field of ASL have documented the sign as being part of lexicon of ASL in
various ASL dictionaries and instructional texts.
The text "A Basic Course in American Sign Language"
by Tom Humphries, Carol Padden and Terrence J. O'Rourke lists this sign as
"HIRE, INVITE and then includes the word "welcome" in
lowercase.
Rod Butterworth in the Perigee Visual Dictionary of Signing:
An A to Z guide to over 1,200 signs of American Sign Language, lists
this sign as meaning WELCOME, "a common gesture of politeness and
acceptance."
Elaine
Costello in the Random House American Sign Language dictionary (1st
ed.), includes this sign--and what's more SHE INITIALIZES IT!!!
Martin Sternberg
includes this sign in "American Sign Language: A Comprehensive
Dictionary"
I could go on,
there are others, those are just the first four I grabbed off my shelf, but
you see my point. The sign is prominently listed in dozens of major
ASL dictionaries and is used and recognized by many native Deaf ASL signers.
How in the world could anybody say that it "isn't" ASL?
Now, in specific response to your question of which is "more"
ASL of the two:
MY-FAMILY-HAVE-#-ANIMALS
or
ANIMALS-#-MY-FAMILY-HAVE
They are both ASL.
The first one is
Subject/Predicate. The predicate consisting of a transitive verb and a
noun.
I notice you use the # symbol, (which goes by many names: number sign,
crosshatch character, pound sign, hash, octothorpe, etc.)
In ASL Gloss,
that symbol is used to indicate the lexicalization of a fingerspelled
word. (For example: #ALL, #WHAT, #BUSY)
I figure you are not indicating that the sign "ANIMALS" is
lexicalized, but rather indicating a "variable number" of ANIMALS.
Compare
that to the concept of "MANY."
MY FAMILY HAVE MANY ANIMAL
That sentence seems fine.
But what happens when we exchange MANY for a
"number" in the second version of the sentence. Which looks
better?
ANIMALS MANY, MY FAMILY HAVE!
MANY ANIMALS, MY FAMILY HAVE!
ANIMALS, MY FAMILY HAVE MANY!
If you are like me, you chose the last one.
I don't see (imagine) the sentence "ANIMALS #, MY FAMILY HAVE" really
being used much. Topicalizing the noun-object ANIMALS works fine, but
topicalizing an adjective+noun-predicate just doesn't work that well..
This
is what I'd recommend instead:
ANIMALS, MY FAMILY HAVE #.
Try it and see
if it doesn't, "feel" better.
But remember, they are both ASL:
MY-FAMILY-HAVE-#-ANIMALS.
and
ANIMALS, MY FAMILY HAVE #.
Ask around though and most people will tend to pick the one that looks
"least" like English.
Truth be told the appropriateness of which
one you use is tied to "register variation."
In a more formal
situation Deaf will tend to sign fewer topicalizations. In a less
formal situation we tend to topicalize more. So, which one is
"better" ASL will depend on who is in your audience.
Take care.
Bill
--- BillVicars@ wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/1/2005 9:35:10 AM Pacific
> Standard Time,
> smdaniluk@ writes:
>
> Hello Dr. Vicars,
I have a question about the use of pronouns "you" vs. "yourself" and "he/she" vs. "himself/herself". I find it very confusing to see sentences like "He himself Deaf", instead of "He Deaf", or as in your lesson 35, "Motorcycle you have?", but in another sentence "yourself", not "you" is used when asking someone if he wished he had a hearing aid.
When should "-self" be used and what's the difference? Thank you so much.
> Suzanne _______
> Houston, Texas
>
>
>
> Suzanne,
> In English you might occasionally ask someone if
> they wanted "their own"
> hearing aid or "their own" apartment.
> For example
> Compare these two sentences:
> I want an apartment.
> I want my own apartment.
>
> The second sentence has a different meaning. It
> indicates that the person
> wants to be independent.
> How would we express that meaning via ASL? We would
> do so by using the sign
> "MYSELF."
> PRO-1 WANT MYSELF A-P-T = I want my own apartment
>
> Now consider these two sentences:
> English:
> Do you wish you had a hearing aid?
> Do you wish you had a hearing aid of your own?
>
> Possible interpretation:
> YOU WISH YOU HAVE HEARING-AID?
> YOU WISH YOU YOURSELF HAVE HEARING-AID?
>
> The second sentence implies that the person asking
> the question has a
> hearing aid or that the two people in the
> conversation have been interacting with a
> person who has a hearing aid.
>
> Do I use the sentence "HE HIMSELF DEAF?" If so,
> which lesson?
> Let me give you an instance where you might see the
> "...HIMSELF DEAF"
> concept used appropriately.
> Suppose you were telling a story and wanted to say:
> "There was a deaf man
> who bought a motorcycle."
> HAPPEN MAN HIMSELF DEAF BOUGHT MOTORCYCLE.
>
> Cordially,
> Dr. V